Ep 56 - How to Heal From Your Parent’s Eating Habits (& Not Pass Them Down) with Jessica Setnick

March 06 ,2025

Have you ever realized how your eating habits were shaped by your parents—or even generations before them?

Maybe it hit you while on vacation with family or when you noticed the same patterns showing up in your own kids.

In this episode, I chat with Jessica Setnick, an eating disorder specialist and creator of Healing Your Inner Eater Workbook, to explore how our upbringing influences our relationship with food and how to break free from unhelpful patterns.

What You’ll Learn:

• How childhood experiences and parents shape eating behaviors

• Why so many of us struggle with breaking generational food patterns

• Practical ways to foster a healthy relationship with food for kids and yourself

TRANSCRIPT:

 Amber: Hello, Confident Eater's, Happy Thursday. We have a special guest episode today with Jessica Setnik.

Jessica, will you introduce yourself?

Jessica: Sure. I'm delighted to be here. I'm trained as a dietitian. I'm an eating disorder specialist and I no longer see clients. I teach workshops now for professionals and for the community called Healing Your Inner Eater.

Amber: And I'm so excited to have Jessica on today because she is going to talk all about our relationship with our parents and how that might have contributed to our eating habits.

And I know for so many of us that is a big deal. We'll also be covering how to make sure we don't pass these eating habits down to children. If you have children or you're thinking about having children. And I was really inspired about this because the other week I was just talking to one of the clients in the company or program, and she was talking about this experience where.

She went to Disney world with her mom and she could see so clearly where her eating habits had stemmed from. And I think so many of us had this experience of like this wake up moment, myself included, where I remember I once went on a trip and my grandmother had told us afterwards on the airplane she just wanted to be bad and she had all these foods that she shouldn't be supposed to be having and then she got home and she was like, let me just have ice cream now too.

And I had this moment waking up where I was like, Oh my gosh, I now have had generations of eating habits passed down to me. So can you talk to us a bit more about how that happens and how we can move past that? Sure.

Jessica: So none of us are born. Feeling guilty about what we eat or having judgment about which foods we choose or when we choose them We're just infants.

We're hungry. We cry a little or we make rooting Movements with our mouth and someone comes and feeds us and then we feel good about it So we do learn from an early age that food is comforting We also, without realizing it, of course, it's not a verbal situation. We realized that food is a mood altering chemical and we never talk about it like that, but food does change our mood.

And so when we continue on, if we had just been left to our own devices, we would probably just continue. to be intuitive eaters. Essentially, we'd get hungry, we'd nourish ourselves and then we move on. But there was a very interesting study done by some dietitians a long time ago, at least 20 years ago, where they gave three year olds and five year olds different sized plates of food.

With macaroni and cheese on them. And if it was a small plate, it was a small portion, medium sized plate, medium portion, large plate, large portion. And what they found was the three year olds don't matter what size plate you gave them would eat whatever they were hungry for and wander off and play. The five year olds would eat a different amount depending on how much you gave them.

And so what we learned from that is that somewhere between three and five, we're teaching our kids or us, we're taught to modulate our eating based on external cues instead of internal cues. And so all of us were raised by someone, whether it was a parent or caregiver, foster parent, grandparent. Other family member, non family member, and that person had eating behaviors that they were taught and modeled and that person that raised them had eating behaviors that they were taught and modeled.

And so if you think about all the people who are sort of our ancestors in this sense of food behaviors. We end up absorbing a lot of food behaviors and messages about eating and about our bodies that are not necessarily helpful. And so it's very interesting when you see that, like you and your client both saw it on a vacation.

So you kind of had to get out of your normal environment to be able to see it. A lot of people say they notice it. When they have kids and they take the kids to the grandparents house and suddenly it becomes clear, wow, the way we are eating it or want to feed our kids is really different from what our parents did for us and the people who are breaking that chain that it's really the hardest on the chain breakers.

Amber: So first step we have is like this awareness, right? Of, Oh my gosh, like almost this wake up moment of, I can see where this had stemmed from. Do you think that like, how much of an impact do our parents eating habits have on us? Like

Jessica: 100%. I mean, I'll grant you that at some point you go to school. And so then you have peers at some point you're exposed to media.

So then you have other messages, but parents are the first role models we have. And I'm going to expand that to caregivers, whoever is taking care of you when you are first, let's say zero to three, even though we can't remember those times, it's sort of a body keeps the score kind of thing. So there's a huge impact and a big part of how we're nourished in those earliest years.

Affects our self esteem. So think about this as non completely nonverbal messages We may not even be speaking But when you are an infant and someone is holding you to feed you if that person is making eye contact with you You don't have the ability to understand Anything in sort of logical terms, you just have feelings.

And so what you're feeling is, if that person is looking at you, smiling at you, responding to your needs, nurturing, maybe even saying like, you're too cute, baby. Then you get a good feeling of I'm good again, not verbal. You don't really understand it in these terms, but you get the sense of I am good. I bring joy to people.

And if the person caring for you is, let's say they are. Altered through substance use. Let's say they are depressed and they're not making eye contact. If they're anxious and you can feel that stress, if they are not nurturing or attuned to your cues and they keep trying to feed you after you decide you're done or they are not responsive, they're neglectful and you're trying to get fed and nobody is responding to you.

Those all give you messages of, I can't get my needs met. I'm not okay. My needs are too demanding. I make people unhappy again, all nonverbal, but it's almost as if a baby is looking into a mirror and the mirror is broken and the baby doesn't realize it's the mirror that's broken. The baby feels broken.

And so those youngest years contribute to our self esteem that can last throughout life. Then there's all the verbal messages that we get like around three years old and on, you know. I can't believe you're hungry right now. You just ate or you know, you're getting a little chunky. I don't think you should have that snack.

All of those verbal messages that we get start piling on. So whoever raised us really has a huge influence and it doesn't mean they were bad. They were probably doing all of those things out of love. Now, granted, there are hurtful, harmful, abusive parents, and I'm just going to leave them out of the conversation for the moment because.

That adds a whole other layer of trauma onto our self esteem and eating issues. But even the most well meaning parent who's trying to raise their child as a healthy eater with love can accidentally pass on things that no longer work. And the best analogy I can think of is it's like you have these shoes that have been passed on from generation to generation and your parent puts them on your feet and they don't really fit.

But it's like, this is the way we've done it forever. And so you end up with these beliefs and behaviors and messages that don't necessarily fit your life now.

Amber: So what if when you realize this, like, Oh my gosh, I can see where this has all been passed down to me from. And for me and a lot of people, kind of the first emotion that comes up is anger.

Of like, you know, why did I have to go through all of this? And why was I passed down this? What, what do you suggest we do with that anger?

Jessica: Sure. So I think the first step is be kind to yourself. Feelings are feelings, and you're entitled to have whatever feelings you have. You can be angry that you inherited any trait.

You can be angry that you inherited early gray hair, or you didn't be angry that you inherited big boobs or, you know, whatever, or flat chest, you can be angry at anything that was inherited through your family. And then, hopefully, you flow into a stage of acceptance. Not in an acceptance of like, well, this is just how it has to be forever.

But more like acceptance of, you know, I was raised with love. These are things that were passed down. How do I want to handle them? And so, instead of feeling that victimhood of, why did this happen to me? Which, by the way, is a stage you may have to go through to get to the other side. But after you let yourself feel that feeling, Hopefully you move into a non victimhood.

You move into sort of like, wait, I am the driver of this bus now. I may have been passively riding on this bus for a lot of years, but now that I'm aware, I can move into the driver's seat and choose some of these things I may decide to keep. But I'll be keeping them because it's my choice, not because it's an automatic.

And some of these things I may decide to do differently, that's probably why a lot of people come to you. It's because they want to do something differently. If they didn't want to, they're not looking for an eating coach. So, that's the goal, is to move through that anger. into feeling like, wait, maybe I have some decisions to make here.

And sometimes I think expressing that is the best way to get to that place, whether that means writing in a journal, whether that means talking to someone like you, or even a best friend, a spouse, a therapist. But talking through it or writing it out, it's always easier to see things when they're not in your head.

Or in your heart. And so that would be my suggestion, even if someone who preferred to, let's say, talk it into their notes on their phone, something like that, where you're sort of getting it out and ideally, I think on paper is really the best because then you can look at it a, you can look at it as if it was another person and possibly see patterns and see it less emotionally, but B you can bring it to someone else and let them look it over and see what they see.

There's a lot of value to getting it out of your head and onto paper. And if you can see what the recurring themes are, then you have more of an option to say which are the ones that you want to keep and which are the ones you want to try to change.

Amber: Right. I totally agree with that. And I love how you said that you're in the driver of the bus now, because I think sometimes we can get into this victim hood of this was done for me.

And now I'm just ruined for life. And it's like, no, that's not true. Because when we're babies, like we don't have a choice on how we're cared for, what we're given, what we're taught, but then good news is like, as we get older, we do have a choice and we can decide how do we want to show up in life and what do we want to believe?

And I always tell people like. Our society has like a lot of fucked up beliefs that we don't want to just take

on.

And same thing from our parents. Like there's probably some beliefs and things that you don't want to keep passing down for generations to come. And so now it's your choice and your responsibility to decide, is this something I want to consciously bring into my adult life now that I have decisions, and now that I take care of me, now that I am the parent of me?

Um, and if not, that's something you can change and that's really good news. I mean,

Jessica: the best way to encapsulate that is I'm rubber, your glue, whatever you say, bounces off of me and sticks to you. I mean, that is our goal is to say, instead of being like a piece of clay where we just absorb the dents of everything that's thrown at us, we want to be more like a racquetball court where things like bounce off of us.

And so we are able to say, I want to keep this or not. And if you have been a person who is very much. Let's say an absorber, an empath, or a good doer, a perfectionist. We have lots of words for someone who is, you know, wants to make other people happy. It's really hard sometimes to say, I'm going to put myself first.

It's really hard. And so I just want to say to the person who feels angry at themselves for absorbing these messages and not saying no sooner. Keep in mind that people pleasing is a survival skill. When you are a baby, it's like you have to play patty cake with or peek a boo with these weirdos so that you get your diaper changed and so that you get fed.

And so we learn to sort of cooperate is kind of a kinder word than people pleasing. We learn to cooperate because that's how we stay safe. If your parent says, I paid for that food, now you're gonna eat it. We comply because that's how we stay safe. That's how we keep a roof over our head. And so it's really important to keep in mind that you didn't actively choose to have unhelpful behaviors, but you chose them in a sense of needing what they offered you.

And so that's where, if you can say, well, now I have my own roof over my own head, or I choose to buy my own foods. Then you don't have to follow the rules that were given to you before, but it can feel like betraying those people. And you just have to remember you don't wear the same shoes that your parents gave you when you were eight.

So you also don't have to wear the same eating habits, but it can be very hard. So I think a big message that you and I are both giving is compassion for yourself, kindness for yourself. You don't have to be angry with yourself at the same time you can choose to change.

Amber: Right. And one of the things that I've had to work through and some of my clients too, is kind of like this belief that we're supposed to look up to our parents and that they're to be this all knowing wise people who have like Who are going to guide us through life in every sense of the word.

But like, if we actually think about like what a parent or caregiver is, it's like a parent, you know, they, they birthed you and now they're a mom and or now they're a dad or a caregiver. They chose to take you on and now they are a role model to you. But how can we move past this idea of like, this person I'm supposed to be like following in their footsteps?

Because that's how I Honor them in

some weird

sense,

Jessica: right? So there's two parts to that. One is the internal part, what we need to do for ourselves. And then two is the external part. So I'll say the external part first, cause it's kind of the easier one. Once you decide you're going to change something and let's just pick something, you know, I think a lot of these things come up when someone has children or when they become the age that their parent.

Was when they had them, right? And you realize like, Oh my gosh, I don't know everything. My parent didn't know everything either. Um, but when this happens, the external part is let's say, I'll just make up an example of someone who has kids and in their childhood home, you could only have dessert if you finished everything on your plate, but they have decided that.

People eat what's on their, whatever they want for dinner, and then they get dessert, and no one gets denied dessert regardless of what they ate for dinner. It's like, oh, it's dessert time, here's the ice cream, and everyone gets ice cream. And the grandparents say, well, that can't be right, this person didn't eat enough to get ice cream.

And you can just very kindly say, oh my gosh, I love you mom, thanks. We're going to do it this way and see how it goes. So in other words, you can phrase it as this is what we're trying as opposed to, hey, mom, the way you did it, fucked me up. And I'm not fucking up my children like that. Right. We kind way to say we're going to try it this way.

Would you like some dessert, mom? And you kind of almost like break eye contact. You don't look at your mom. Hoping she's going to agree with you. It's kind of like, Oh, you know what? Thanks mom. We're going to try it this way. Would you like some ice cream? Keep moving. And so you, in a kind way, you say, this is sort of how we do it.

And you're not saying mom, the way you did it was bad. You're not saying mom, you're bad. That's why I think saying I love you is really important because that's what I think parents are trying to convey. I'm just thinking of my mom. I'm 52. My mom's 83. She came over yesterday and told me which plants I should have brought inside because of the cold weather.

At

52, right? And all I can say is, Oh, thanks, Mom. I love you. I'm either going to bring the plants in or not. And she knows it. She just can't control herself. And she goes, Oh shoot, I'm being bossy again. Because we've had this conversation. But it's not about, Mom, I'm a grown up. Now, in my 20s, I would have had that conversation.

Mom, I'm a grown up. But now I get it. She does respect me as a grown up. It's just you're always a kid in your parents eyes. There's also another way externally you can handle it is you can have the conversation, but I wouldn't have it at a mealtime. I would have a totally separate conversation. And say something like, listen, mom, dad, I wanted to let, you know, we're trying something new with the kids.

Everybody's going to get dessert. And I know when we were growing up, we had to finish our plate, clean our plate, happy plate, whatever you called it so that we could get dessert. And we're going to try doing it differently in our house. I wanted to let you know in advance so that if it seems surprising to you.

You can talk to me about it later rather than at the meal. So you give your parents a warning. Now, it's not always possible because sometimes the situation comes up, right? And you didn't have that ability to give that pre information. But if you can, it's always okay to do that. If you're going on a vacation with your parents and your kids, let's say, or even just with your parents and you, and you can say, listen, mom, I wanted to let you know, I've been working with the nutrition coach.

And I'm going to be eating a little bit differently, and it might seem a little bit odd or different to you. I'm going to be bringing snacks into the hotel room and not just eating at mealtimes. And I just wanted to let you know, because you might have thoughts about it. But I really would appreciate it if you have any questions to just ask me.

And, you know. Not make faces or whatever your mom does when she's being, right. But just ask me if you have a question, I'll tell you what I'm working on. Or, you know, I prefer not to answer any questions now. I'm just going to keep working on it with my nutrition coach. And I may be able to answer questions later.

So again, just kind of giving that little prep work can really protect you in the moment, if you can.

Amber: Yeah, and I love like this lens of curiosity through it. I think curiosity is always like one of the most helpful emotions we can have and I think this is a skill too that people can bring in with like their partners or just with themselves of If you have your partner with you eating and all of a sudden you decide, like, I teach a lot around mindful eating and putting all your food on a plate.

And one of my clients once, like they only ever ate off of paper plates in front of the TV. And so she had to have that conversation of, Hey, honey, like, we're going to try something new. And I'm going to sit at the table and I'm going to eat on a real plate. And it's going to be different and you don't have to do it with me, but I'm going to do it and I'd love if you would join in with me and one of the really beautiful benefits of it, is it really like.

increase their relationship and their communication because they were able to sit and have dinner together. So I think thinking of like the positive benefits around this too, of like, maybe this will open up a conversation and we'll actually, you know, talk about this a little bit more, or I'll finally be able to feel like I'm setting boundaries around this and asking for what I want around my mom or my kids.

And thinking of it as like, this is like an exercise of choosing the beliefs that I want to have in this world. And that's something that can go beyond just food too. And Can go into with ourself of setting boundaries of like, what do I want with myself? And what food habits are important to me and letting me have those and not letting it be influenced by everyone else around

me.

Jessica: And that's the internal work. So that's the other part. And that can actually take longer than setting boundaries. But it depends, I guess, that you both would be really challenging. But it's sort of internally saying, I am not accusing my parents of anything. All my parents are guilty of is being a person who didn't have all the answers.

But like you said, we grow up thinking, My parents have all the answers. My daddy's the strongest man in the world. My mom's the most beautiful woman in the world. Or something along those lines. And those are the rules or the beliefs that keep us safe. And so that's what we have to tell ourselves is those rules kept me safe.

It's sort of like those shoes kept my feet warm, but they are too small now. Right. So as an adult, I have to choose to take care of myself. I have to choose to let some things go. And if you can think of other things that you've let go. So, for example, maybe your parents really wanted you to be an artist and you really wanted to be a doctor or vice versa, or maybe your parents really.

You know, didn't want you to move to Chicago and you did like, how did you find the courage to do something that was not what your parents wanted or not what your parents role modeled for you? And so that is just a normal process. It has a fancy name individuation, but it's just the normal process of growing up and making your own decisions.

Now, if you do live in the same city as the people who cared for you. It can be a little bit harder because, again, you haven't had that practice of saying, I'm going to be doing things differently, but it's an internal process. And even if your caregivers don't agree, even if they make your kids clean their plates before they get dessert, right?

You can say to your kids, listen, that's not the way we do things, but Oma and grandpa do things differently. And that's okay. And do things differently in their houses. And so you can internally be okay with changing, even if the other people aren't okay with changing. It's all about what you choose for your own life, that driving that bus and other people can get on board or not, but you don't have to.

Let's say excommunicate people from your family because they don't agree with your methods. It's the internal part that is the most important. And when you were talking about the client whose spouse joined them in having meals at the table, I'd like to share a personal story. If I may. Yeah. So for some reason I got this thing off the internet that was like a Sunday night meeting.

I've been married to my husband. It'll be 18 years next month. So this is not a newlywed situation, but it was about having a meeting every Sunday night. And I thought, okay, this'll be good for us. Sometimes I feel like we've gotten kind of disconnected. So every Sunday night we just sit in bed with this paper and we go down it.

And one of the things says, write your meal plan for the week and your grocery list. And so the first couple of weeks, we kind of were like, I don't know. We weren't really prepared for that. Well, I have this three ring binder of recipes that I rarely refer to, but I thought, okay, I'm going to bust that out.

And I gave it to my husband and I said, well, you just flag some things that look good to you. And we'll put them on the grocery list. I do the cooking, not because of any kind of gender roles, but because I like to. And so I wanted to know which things he thought you would like to eat. Well, guess what?

When I go back and look at those things, he flagged. It's all the things I make all the time. So I'm thinking he might be bored with the things that I make all the time. Stuffed pasta shells, linguine and clams, like things that have just become routine for me. I'm thinking, well, he would probably like it if we had some variety to spice things up.

Nope. He is very happy. And it's so interesting because I wouldn't have known that. If I hadn't asked for his opinion and it's just one of those things where food and eating you think you're just talking about nutrition But it's such a metaphor for relationships and for other things and so to find out that my husband He likes the things I make and he wants more of them and that to me is one of my love languages is making food I feel so much more connected with him and it's like a little question mark in my mind that I can just And check it off, you know, and say, no, he's very content with the things that I make.

And it was just such a simple thing, but it just means so much. So sometimes I think bringing up these conversations can just be the hardest part about it. And then once you bring it up, you find out, Oh my gosh, yes, we can do this together.

Amber: And like you said, it doesn't have to be like a serious conversation of like, here's all the ways you messed me up and ruined me and all the things were changing.

Like, of course it, you know, it shouldn't be like that either. But it can just be like a simple mention of like, hey, here's the things I'm trying right now. And here's what we're experimenting around with. Or here's what I'm teaching the kids. Like. You know, I'd love to talk to you more about it, but if you don't want to hear more, like, that's okay.

This is the way we're doing things

Jessica: right now. It can just be so intimidating to open the conversation. That's the hard part because you don't know how the other person is going to react. And so I think that's why it's really important to try to have it not in the moment, in the heat of the moment, try to have it at a calmer time, but it does feel weird to bring it up just out of the clear blue sky.

So that's why I think sometimes we end up sort of, like I said, noticing it when we're out of our routine for whatever reason. And I feel like that's part of how relationships are made, is by sometimes addressing the courageous conversations. And the disappointing part is that sometimes it doesn't go well.

And that's okay. That's when you plan, you know, to talk to your best friend about how what a bummer it was that you kind of got smacked down. Someone that will help remind you, like, it's okay, you are still a grown up and you get to make your own decisions, even if your family members don't agree. That's tough.

I'm sorry that happened. You know, there's always a chance that things will change, but at least while you're on your own, you can do things this other way. It doesn't have to be like a family breaking situation.

Amber: Yeah. So let's say that people do have kids or they're thinking of having kids and they're like.

I want to do this differently. I want to make sure that my child has the perfect relationship with food and it's super healthy. What would you say to that and how to go about it?

Jessica: I would say that is completely unrealistic. So try to let that go. You are going to, for lack of a better word, Do some things that mess up your kid with food and other things because just like we were talking about just because you have kids Doesn't mean you are suddenly the perfect parent and know it all but the number one thing I can recommend is to be Responsive instead of thinking of how you want it to be Sometimes we have to really let go of what we want in favor of what is best for the kids.

And that's the best way to look at it. So you might say, well, I am going to breastfeed my child for a year. If it doesn't work out, you're going to be bottle feeding your child. And that might be sad for you, but You have to do what's best for the child, right? Or if you say, I am going to feed my child at nine, noon, three, and six, those will be feeding times.

Well, you're going to have to think about what you're going to do when your kid is hungry at five 30. It's not appropriate to just let a kid cry for half an hour because you decided they should eat at six. So being responsive and attuned is actually the best way to help your child develop good eating habits, which is so interesting because that if you think about the things that were not helpful for you.

That's probably what it all boils down to is someone made you finish what was on your plate when you were not hungry anymore or someone told you you couldn't have seconds when you were hungry. It's someone that was trying to teach us your internal cues cannot be trusted. You have to follow my external rules.

That's what we want to undo. So instead of thinking, I want my kid to be the perfect eater. I would encourage you to think about it as I want my kid to know how to tune into their own internal cues. Even when that's a little bit challenging for me,

that is the

best gift that you can give your kids.

Amber: Right, I think when people get into this situation, it's like they're trying to heal this part of themself of like, I wish that I had this different thing. And so I want to give this to this person so that way I can feel good about myself.

Jessica: You are so insightful. And the best thing I can say to that is 180 degrees from crazy is just a different kind of crazy.

So if you are doing things exactly the opposite as your parents, because you didn't like what they did, then you are not being an attuned parent. You are just knee jerk reacting to what you didn't like. And so you are actually perpetuating the hurt that they caused by continuing to act from that place of hurt.

Here's the nutty thing. You may actually agree with your parents on certain things. And that's okay. So you don't want to just say my parents did everything wrong. I'm going to do everything the opposite. We lived in a house, so I'm going to live in a tree. Like, that doesn't make any sense, right? It's to say my parents were loving, and they had been raised by people who had eating experiences.

And so I am going to choose among those eating experiences which ones I'm going to do. So it's, you can't just do the

opposite.

Amber: I think too that Like, obviously if someone's coming to me, they've been through this struggle with food, they've been trying to heal their relationship with food, but because of the work we're doing together, they are learning this whole new host of skills that they might not have had before.

They're learning how to be more compassionate with themselves. They're learning how to manage their emotions for the first time ever. They're learning things like the hunger scale and like, how do I actually know? And have they not had? All of these eating experience, they might not have come to this.

They might still not be managing their emotions well, and maybe it would just look like a different way. So I think it's so important for you to recognize too, that like, yes, it's been hard and yes, some things are not going to be perfect. And yes, you're not going to show up as a perfect parent, but like what skills can you now teach your kids?

Because of this, I have, my clients will sometimes teach their kids, the hunger and fullness scale. Like. You know, where are you at? How hungry is your body? And where is your fullness getting to? And then as we start to learn about moderation in my program together, they really learn like, how can I show my kids this too of, Hey, like cookies are not good or bad.

We're going to have one. And we're going to check in with how our body feels and really notice the sensation that come after. And like, they might not have had that awareness and skills to teach the kids. Had they not gone through. All of these hardships with food in the first place.

Jessica: Well, it's like the title of Brene

Brown's book, right?

The Gifts of Imperfection, right? So, all of our experiences make us as people. And that's just who you are. That's your path, right? We may be sad about some of it, but it is our path. And so, I think it's appropriate to sort of Have that gratitude for being, let's say, at the place where we can repair some of this.

Amber: Right.

So I know you mentioned being like really present to where your child is at, like in their unique journey. Is there anything else you would suggest for how parents can keep their kids healthy and having this healthy relationship with food and really making sure that they get like both the nutrition and not all the diet rules?

Jessica: Yes. So

one recommendation I make is that once it's in your house, it's fair game. So in other words, you can't bring in tortilla chips. And then tell your kids they can't have them, right? I mean, there's some exceptions. Okay, I grant you that. If there's beer, you know, you can tell your kids that's only for grown ups.

But for the most part, it's not okay to have sort of different rules and different foods for different people unless you have something like a food allergy or something like that. So in other words, you get to choose what comes into the house, but it's appropriate to let your children make the choice of what they're going to eat at what time.

And so That might include having, let's say, a shelf in the pantry that kids can reach, and you can say, these are the things that you can have for a snack when you're hungry, or there's a shelf in the refrigerator where, let's say, the can of Loat Melon is already cut and in a Tupperware, so that kids can, you know, choose that and have that on their own, even, you know, if they don't.

necessarily ask you or if you're busy and can't do something at the time. So in other words, having food available is really, really important so that kids know that they are going to get their needs met. Because that is one of the biggest problems for kids who grew up in an orphanage in their first years of life and didn't have individual care.

For kids who grew up in a foster situation that might have been neglectful. Is that they end up feeling like my needs aren't going to get met so I have to hoard food or I have to store food under the bed or I have to eat everything that I can while it's there because I don't know when I will have more.

Having access to food, it's ironic because people sometimes think if I give my kid free access to food then they'll eat all the time. It's actually the opposite. If your kid has free access to food, then it ends up being a non issue.

Amber: What about if parents say, like, when I give my kids free access to food, they're just snacking all day, and then they're not eating at mealtimes, or they're not eating, like, the fruits and vegetables that I want them to?

Jessica: Well, then the fruits and vegetables need to be available, right, for them to snack on. I don't think that snacking is a problem, personally, but if you want your kids to eat at mealtimes and not as many snacks, then You just say that you can just say, Oh, you know what? Our next meal time is in 30 minutes.

So what do you think you could eat right now? That could tide you till dinner? Like, what if you had three carrot sticks? Let's try it. Let's see it. Right. That curiosity, instead of saying you can't have anything, or if you eat a turkey sandwich, now you're not going to be hungry for dinner. Instead, just say, you know, what do you think?

Half a granola bar? Would that be a good experiment? Let's do half a granola bar and see if you're hungry for dinner in 30 minutes. And then you learn from it. If they're not hungry for dinner, you can say, Oh, you know what? Maybe next time it'll just be a half of a half of a granola bar. We'll just keep testing and experimenting.

So you're teaching your kid. It's not wrong to not be hungry at dinnertime. It's not right to be hungry at dinnertime. But since we all sit together at dinner, it's nice to be hungry at dinnertime. How can we. Facilitate that. It's really much less about rules and much more about learning about themselves.

Amber: And I want everyone to hear that for themselves too as they're navigating and learning their hunger and fullness. Like literally you can say that with yourself too of like, as I'm relearning my hunger and fullness, like, you know, do I have a snack right now? Dinner's coming? Like, do I need it? I don't know.

It's like, we'll try and see what happens, you know, like have that half a granola bar. And then if you end up not that hungry for dinner, then you learned, and then you have some new information that you can use for next time. Because so many people put like pressure on themselves of, I don't know what's the right way to navigate my hunger and fullness.

And it's like, well, I can't tell you that you can't tell them that like no one can until you start experimenting trying it out and figuring out and then you might have some times where you realize whoops I ate too much or whoops that kind of hurt my belly or whoops I actually didn't eat enough and I'm actually really hungry all day and then you just learn from it and you can use that information for the next day.

Jessica: That's so right on. I think of it like the branches of a tree. If you're climbing a tree, you pick a branch and then you keep going along that branch and you have to pick another branch and you kind of you have these choices to make and if you get to a dead end. Then you may climb back down the tree and go up a different way.

There's no right or wrong way to climb a tree. So it's the same with food choices. You have choices throughout your day. You can choose to eat breakfast, to not eat breakfast, to eat a bagel for breakfast, to eat breakfast cereal for breakfast, to eat an omelet for breakfast. None of these are the right choice.

You make a choice and depending on that choice, other choices will open up for you. Now, this is why we have things like meal plans, because sometimes all those choices feel way too overwhelming. But ultimately the goal is to make a choice and then depending on what choice you make later in the day, you'll have another choice.

If you eat a bowl of breakfast cereal for breakfast and you're hungry at 10 30, that's good information. What will you do with that information? It doesn't mean that you're wrong or that you made a bad choice. It's simply that that was the choice you made. What choices will you make now? It's the same thing.

I call it. Being a competent eater like Ellen Satter versus intuitive eater, because as you were saying before, sometimes people can mistake intuitive eating for a free for all. I don't believe that that's what intuitive eating is, but those words can sometimes competent eater somehow kind of, to me, puts in what the internal cues part of intuitive eating, plus the gentle nutrition part of intuitive eating.

For example, let's say I'm going on a hike today. And I'm not really hungry right now. I might still eat something, because I'm going on a hike today.

A

competent eater sometimes overrules hunger cues, because it's important. Even if I'm not hungry now, you better believe I'm packing stuff in my backpack to eat later, because I'm using my intelligence along with my intuition about my hunger cues.

So that's the kind of thing that we're really trying to develop is. Being prepared for multiple things being

true or right at the same time.

Amber: Right. And I want to go back to what you were saying about having that food available freely for like the kids and also apply that to, for you yourself. Because I think when parents think like, well I do, you know, I give them lots of different options.

It's like, well, Is the cantaloupe as easy to grab as the Oreo cookies in the cabinet? Like, maybe, maybe not. And that can apply to us too, of, you know, I'm wanting to eat healthier. I'm wanting to have more nutrition. It's like, well, Is the bag of chips the only thing that's easily available to you? And if so, like how can you make the carrots more visible or more appealing or have things cut up ahead of time so that way it is just as easy to grab and your brain doesn't have to make like that extra step happen in that choice and it can just become so much more of a free flowing smooth process.

Jessica: I call the crisper the place where vegetables go to die because no one looks in that bottom drawer, right? It has to be cut up and on a shelf at eye level. Or it's not ever going to get eaten. I'm just going to remember I have that cucumber like three months later when it's moldy. So yes, food availability is the number one thing.

And we don't think about it because we, food is so abundant for us. We don't realize that we can put ourselves in a situation, an artificial situation of food insecurity, which is when people eat whatever's available. Totally.

Amber: Any last minute thoughts or things you want to leave people with today?

Jessica: Well, I just want to say I love the way that you approach things.

And I think this has been really like meeting of the mind. So I'm really glad that you're doing what you're doing, because it sounds like a lot of people are really benefiting.

Amber: Thank you so much. And I guess one last thing I have for you is, you know, as we've talked about this, if people are feeling kind of hopeless on Noelle's gifted all these habits from my parents.

Like, will I really be able to change? What would you tell those people?

Jessica: I would say it is never too late to change. Awareness is the key. If you're in that place of disappointment, let's say. It's because you've noticed. And so you're already on the path. Right? Because some people go through their whole lives just doing these same behaviors and not even noticing that they're an issue.

Or not even believing that there's another way. So, your sadness is sort of a gift in the sense that it's showing you you want to change. And no, it's never ever too late to change. No, definitely not. It's not always easy to change, but with support and help, you can. And I think the other thing I would say to someone feeling hopeless is, you've got to take away that shame.

Shame is a killer. Shame is something that makes you keep things secret, not want to tell anyone. Tell one person what you're experiencing. If you don't feel like telling a person or don't feel like you have someone safe, write it down. Just get started seeing it as thoughts and beliefs, as opposed to a character flaw or who you are as a person.

Amber: Yeah, so good. Well, thank you for being here today. If people are Interested in next steps or wanting to learn more about you, where can they find you?

Jessica: Sure, So healing your inner eater is the name of my workshop and healing your inner eater Calm is where you can find the workbook if you're interested I'll use code podcast as a discount code to bring down the cost if you want to get it It's an instant download ebook And then jessicasetnik.

com is my website, my umbrella website, which has everything about me. And you can sign up for my newsletter there. There's a pop up that will come up if you go to jessicasetnik. com. I'd love to stay in touch.

Amber: Awesome. Well, thank you so much. Have a good day.